Walter Veith’s Response to Apostasy—“Just Sit There!”

"Mark this point with care: Those who receive the pure mark of truth, wrought in them by the power of the Holy Ghost, represented by a mark by the man in linen, are those 'that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the church.' Testimonies, vol. 3, pp. 266-267.


Isaiah 58 Our Work


“This is our work. The light that we have upon the third angel’s message is the true light. The mark of the beast is exactly what it has been proclaimed to be. Not all in regard to this matter is yet understood, and will not be understood until the unrolling of the scroll; but a most solemn work is to be accomplished in our world. The Lord’s command to His servants is, “Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show My people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.” Isaiah 58:1. A message that will arouse the churches is to be proclaimed. Every effort is to be made to give the light, not only to our people, but to the world. I have been instructed that the prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation should be printed in small books, with the necessary explanations, and should be sent all over the world. Our own people need to have the light placed before them in clearer lines.” {CH 520.3}

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In Walter Veith’s video (link below) at juncture 1:02.30, Walter is asked what we should do about all the apostasy in the church? He says just sit in the pew and read your Bible for the bad will be shaken out. He expresses in the video how much he hates deception and how that is the motive for doing what he does. But there is a huge problem here: If he hates deception in the world so much that he has to spend all his ministry time warning of that deception, why does he advocate that we just sit and stay, and do nothing about the deceptions in the church?


The problem goes much further in contradicting the admonitions of God in the Bible and Ellen G. White. This document provides some of the instruction of God and the Spirit of Prophecy when there is apostasy in the church. Veith’s instruction to just sit there in the pew and read your Bible, IS NOT according to the Word of God. Veith’s counsel that the bad will be shaken out of the SDA church militant rather than Zion, the 144,000 church triumphant, is a major error that will result in many Adventists just sitting in the pews when Ezekiel 9 is literally fulfilled beginning at HIS CHURCH, HIS SANCTUARY, 5T 211.


While viewing Veith’s video, ask yourself these questions:


·       When asked about a correct response to the apostasy in/of the church, Veith responded: “JUST SIT THERE!” STAY IN THE CHURCH NO MATTER WHAT IT DOES! Is that what Jesus did? Is that what the disciples did? Is that what Paul and the prophets did? Is that what SDA reformers did in 1844? Is that what reformers did in the Reformation?

·       If the bad are shaken out of the SDA church militant (wheat and tare co-ed church), why would Ezekiel 9 destruction begin there?

·       Veith says to stay with the church NO MATTER WHAT IT DOES! Ellen White spoke of the possibility of ANOTHER COMING OUT.

·       Walter Veith says the church will not fail. Ellen White prophesied that it would refuse the CONDITIONS so that God’s promises would not be fulfilled to the church.

·       The Bible and Ellen White say that the tares are shaken out of Zion by Zion, the THIRD ANGEL, FAITHFUL MEN, the 144,000. Zion is the church triumphant. The bride gives the Loud Cry that awakens all ten virgins. Christ’s Object Lessons, p. 405.

·       God says to cry aloud and shown His people their sins, Isa. 58:1. Ellen White says this is our work. Walter Veith’s counsel directly contradicts God’s Word.

·       Ezekiel 3 says that if we don’t warn our brother, his blood will be on our backs. Ellen White said that we all have the same responsibility as Ezekiel within our sphere. Walter Veith’s counsel contradicts both the Bible and  Ellen G. White.

·       Ellen White says let there be war rather than compromise with error. GC p. 45.

·       Walter Veith says that the church militant has all the true doctrines. That is not true, for the Trinity Doctrine is as antiChrist as any doctrine gets for it voids the Sanctuary and the Atonement just as the Alpha heresy did. Without the Sanctuary and Atonement sacrifice we have no human nature of Christ as an example for us. Ellen White said the human nature of Christ means everything to us.

·       Walter Veith counsel denies corporate responsibility for the apostasy of the church and in the church. The principle of corporate responsibility is taught by Scripture and Ellen G. White.

·       Walter Veith cites the example of Elijah and the 7,000 who had not bowed the knee to Baal, out of context, because Israel still had 490 years of probation ahead (Dan. 9), which ended in A.D. 34. It is in A.D. 34 that the TYPE begins that Veith should have cited: The disciples formed home churches and gathered out the faithful from the apostate Jewish church.

·       Walter Veith implies we need no more prophets. Ellen White said there would be more as does the Bible.

·       Walter Veith does not sigh and cry aloud (Isaiah 58:1) for all the abominations. He says JUST SIT THERE IN THE PEW!

·       Walter Veith says Laodicea’s candlestick is not removed, but rather the bad are spewed out. Ellen White gave CONDITIONS under which the candlestick WOULD BE REMOVED:

“But O, sad picture! those who do not submit to the influence of the Holy Spirit soon lose the blessings received when they acknowledged the truth as from Heaven. They fall into a cold, spiritless formality; they lose their interest in perishing souls: they have “left their first love.” And Christ says unto them, “Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.” He will take his Holy Spirit from the church, and give it to others who will appreciate it.

There is no greater evidence that those who have received great light do not appreciate that light, than is given by their refusal to let their light shine upon those who are in darkness, and devoting their time and energies in celebrating forms and ceremonies. Thoughts of the inner work, the necessary purity of heart, are not entertained. The absence of harmony with God becomes apparent. The light grows dim, goes out; the candlestick has been removed. There is much exercising of man-made authority by those to whom God has not given his wisdom because they did not feel the need of the wisdom from above. This wisdom, “first pure, then peaceable, gentle, easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy,” is contrary to their disposition. They have not the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, with which the believer in Jesus should be adorned. They do not represent the meek and lowly Carpenter of Nazareth. The set aside as of little value that which God has said “is of great price.” {RH July 16, 1895, Art. A, par. 12}


Doug Batchelor’s counsel is similar to Veith’s and all the other leaders in the church.


Walter Veith Questions and Answers


Dealing With Apostasy 1 Why Walter Veith and Doug Batchelor are Wrong


Dealing With Apostasy 2


Dealing With Apostasy 3


The third video in Dealing With Apostasy, denies corporate responsibility by saying you don’t have to leave a fallen church, when the reason we left the other fallen churches in 1844, is because of corporate responsibility along with the fact that THORNS (OPEN SIN APOSTASY) choke the wheat and make it impossible to mature.


"Thorns sprung up.--The thorns made it impossible for the wheat to mature (see Luke 8:14). In the same way secular interests prevent the fruits of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22, 23) from reaching maturity. Religion is relegated to the subordinate position of being only one interest among many. For lack of cultivation it withers and eventually dies. That which the thorny-ground hearers lack is a moral transformation [E.G. White, Christ's Object Lessons,  p. 50]  To them, justification is the sum and substance of religion, and they fail to realize that the Christian life consists essentially in the process known as sanctification--the process by which evil traits and tendencies are replaced by the perfect life-pattern of Jesus Christ." Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary, vol. 5, 405.

This (above) is precisely what New Movement Seventh-day Adventists (Selected Messages, vol. 1, 204-205), teaches—that one can be saved in his/her sins, and that justification is the sum and substance of religion.


“The Lord will not write as wise those who cannot distinguish between a tree that bears thorn-berries and a tree that bears olives.” {EGW, RH, September 7, 1897 par. 15}


The wheat can mature amongst tares (insincere believers whose motives we would have to judge in order to uproot them. COL, pp. 70-72), but open sinning apostates CHOKE AND KILL THE WHEAT before it can mature.


Ellen White says that it is IMPOSSIBLE to unite with the corrupt and remain pure. Walter Veith says it is possible to be pure while united to corrupt apostates.


"It is IMPOSSIBLE for you to unite with those who are corrupt, and still remain pure. (II Corinthians 6:14-15 quoted). God and Christ and the heavenly host would have men know that if he unites with the corrupt he will become corrupt." E. G. White, Review and Herald, Vol. 4, p. 137.  


Walter Veith says that the church that the church militant is the apple of God’s eye. Scripture makes it clear that the apple of God’s eye is ZION, the church triumphant. God’s Word says that Zion is the apple of His eye:


Zec 2:7   Deliver thyself, O Zion, that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon.

 Zec 2:8  For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the  apple of his eye.


Heb 12:22  But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 

 Heb 12:23   To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just  men made perfect,


Isa 60:14   The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel.  


Walter Veith says that the bad will be shaken out of the SDA church militant (wheat and tare) church and that it will go through. Ellen White prophesied the final fall of the SDA church militant saying it would fail to meet the CONDITIONS of God. That is the same church that is destroyed by a literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9.


Ellen White said PILLAR DOCTRINES would be removed. (1SM 205). Veith says that they are all there in the church. Ellen White said that only the presence of God can constitute a church. (UL 315). She said that the omega new movement, new organization, would REMOVE GOD. The Trinity Doctrine removes the Sanctuary and the Atonement. THAT REMOVES GOD.





/proʊˈlɛpsɪs/ Show Spelled[proh-lep-sis] Show IPA

noun, plural pro·lep·ses /-siz/ Show Spelled[-seez] Show IPA.


Rhetoric . the anticipation of possible objections in order to answer them in advance.


the assigning of a person, event, etc., to a period earlier than the actual one; the representation of something in the future as if it already existed or had occurred; prochronism.


the use of a descriptive word in anticipation of its becoming applicable.


a fundamental conception or assumption in Epicureanism or Stoicism arising spontaneously in the mind without conscious reflection; thought provoked by sense perception.


Pathology . the return of an attack of a periodic disease or of a paroxysm before the expected time or at progressively shorter intervals.




Here is the Spirit of Prophecy prophesied prolepsis statement regarding the final fate of that once Noble Ship. This is a major LYNCHPIN to my warning message. Can you explain it away? Are you a passenger on this once NOBLE SHIP, that is about to s? NOTICE WHO SEPARATES FROM WHOM:


"Jesus sends HIS PEOPLE a message of warning to prepare them for his coming. To the prophet John was made known the closing work in the great plan of man's redemption. He beheld an angel flying 'in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him for the hour of his Judgment is come and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters [Rev. 14:6, 7.].

The angel represented in prophecy as delivering this message,  symbolizes a class of faithful men, who, obedient to the promptings of God's Spirit and the teachings of his word, proclaim this warning to the inhabitants of earth. This message was not to be committed to the religious leaders of the people. They had failed to preserve their connection with God, and had REFUSED THE LIGHT FROM HEAVEN therefore they WERE NOT of the number described by the apostle Paul: 'But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day we are not of the night nor of darkness' [1 Thess. 5:4, 5]. 

The watchmen upon the walls of Zion should be the first to catch the tidings of the Saviour's advent, the first to lift their voices to proclaim him near, the first to warn the people to prepare for his coming. But they were at ease, dreaming of peace and safety, while the people were asleep in their sins. Jesus saw HIS CHURCH, like the barren fig-tree, covered with pretentious leaves, yet destitute of precious fruit. There was a boastful observance of the forms of religion, while the spirit of true humility, penitence and faith--which alone could render the service acceptable to God--was lacking. Instead of the graces of the Spirit, there were manifested pride, formalism, vainglory, selfishness, oppression. A BACKSLIDING CHURCH closed their eyes to the signs of the times. God did nor forsake them, or suffer his faithfulness to fail but they departed from him, and SEPARATED THEMSELVES from his love. As they REFUSED TO COMPLY WITH THE CONDITIONS, his promises were NOT FULFILLED to them."  E.G. White, The Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, pp. 199-200 [The 1884 edition of The Great Controversy, 199, 200].


Note these important delineations in the above statement:

·       Ellen White is addressing HIS PEOPLE.

·       Ellen White is addressing those to whom God committed the EVERLASTING GOSPEL of Revelation 14.

·       Ellen White is defining the angel represented in prophecy as symbolizing a class of faithful men.

·       Ellen White is saying emphatically that the final Loud Cry message is delivered NOT BY THE LEADERS OF THE SDA CHURCH, but by a class of faithful men, because the leaders had failed to preserve their connection with God and had refused light from heaven!

·       Ellen White is addressing "watchmen upon the walls of Zion," NOT FALLEN BABYLON!

·       Twice Ellen White mentions HIS CHURCH, NOT FALLEN BABYLON.


·       The above reasons are why there is another coming out of a faithful remnant FROM APOSTATE JERUSALEM AS WELL AS FALLEN BABYLON.

·       Isa 37:31   And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward: 

·       Isa 37:32   For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this. 

Ellen White is addressing a BACKSLIDING CHURCH whose leaders and laity alike failed and rejected light from heaven and who refused to comply with the conditions so that God's promises are not fulfilled to them. Consider the following commentary on the 1884 Great Controversy that the above statement is quoted from:

“Consider for a few moments the chapter in the first edition of Great Controversy, Volume IV, published by Pacific Press in 1884. In Chapter XXVII, ‘The Snares of Satan,’ you find that about four pages in the latter part of the chapter were omitted from the later editions of Great Controversy. These four pages are to be found in Testimonies to Ministers, pages 472 to 475. The information contained in these four pages is very valuable to Seventh-day Adventists and was very appropriately included in the first edition of Great Controversy, Volume IV, which when it was published was like the other volumes considered to be A MESSAGE ESPECIALLY TO SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTISTS, and to [all] Christian people sympathizing with them in beliefs and aims.” W. C. White, Selected Messages, Appendix C, pp. 452, 453.

The Human Nature of Christ

SDA leaders sold out to the Evangelicals in the mid 1950-s on the issue of the human nature of Christ, which Ellen White said means everything to us. When asked a question about this issues from a member of his audience, Veith begged off answering this question which is very easy to address. The simple answer as to whether or not Jesus had the nature of Adam before or after the fall, is that WHATEVER NATURE HE TOOK, we are invited to partake of His DIVINE NATURE in the born again experience. THAT LEVELS THE FIELD! That way JESUS HAD NO ADVANTAGE! But SDA leaders write book after book and article after article as to why we cannot overcome as Jesus did because we have propensities to sin He did not have.

Two Noble Ships

Walter Veith and most professing Adventists are ignorant of the fact that Ellen White mentioned TWO NOBLE SHIPS. They misapply the one that goes through, to the church militant which sinks to rise no more:


Noble Ship #1: "I lately read of a NOBLE SHIP that was plowing its way across the sea, when at midnight, with a terrific crash, it struck upon a rock; the passengers were awakened only to see with horror their hopeless condition, and with the ship they sank to rise no more. The MAN AT THE HELM [VERSUS CHRIST] had mistaken the beacon light, and hundreds of souls were at a moment's warning launched into eternity." E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 2, 128.


The new movement, new organization SDA “church” has a man at the helm because God has been removed per the prophesying of Ellen White. 1SM 204-205.


Noble Ship #2: "There is no need to doubt, to be fearful that the work will not succeed. God is at the head of the work, and He will set everything in order. If matters need adjusting at the head of the work, God will attend to that, and work to right every wrong. Let us have faith that God is going to carry the noble ship which bears the people of God safely into port." E.G. White, Selected Messages, vol. 2, 390.


If God works to “right every wrong” in a manner that permits the church militant to shake out all its errant, why does Ezekiel 9 begin there? (5T 211). Why does Isaiah 37:31, 32 say that a remnant goes out of Jerusalem (the daughter of Zion). Why does Ellen White prophesy that the church militant would fail to meet the CONDITIONS so that His promises are not fulfilled to that church?

The AntiChrist Trinity Doctrine

Dr. George Knight, Andrews University Seminary Theology Professor made the following statement in Ministry, the official Seventh-day Adventist journal for ministers: "Most of the founders of Seventh-day Adventism would not be able to join the church today if they had to subscribe to the denomination's Fundamental Beliefs. More specifically, most would not be able to agree to belief number 2, which deals with the doctrine of the trinity." - Ministry, October 1993, p. 10.

 “Some will tend to resist this doctrine (the trinity) because it is NOT FOUND expressly stated in the scriptures.” –{Adventist Review Aug 20 1993 P-8} "ONLY by FAITH can we accept the existence of the Trinity." Adventist Review, Vol. 158, No. 31, p. 4.

"Likewise, the Trinitarian understanding of God, now part of our fundamental beliefs, was not generally held by the early Adventists. Even today a few do not subscribe to it.” (Adventist Review, January 6, 1994, page 10, 11)

James White on the Trinity doctrine: "As fundamental errors, we might class with this counterfeit sabbath other errors which Protestants have brought away from the Catholic church, such as sprinkling for baptism, the trinity, the consciousness of the dead and eternal life in misery. The mass who have held these fundamental errors, have doubtless done it ignorantly but can it be supposed that the church of Christ will carry along with her these errors till the judgment scenes burst upon the world? We think not." (James White, September 12, 1854, Review & Herald, Vol. 6, No. 5, page 36, par. 8)

Citing Elijah, Moses and Daniel OUT OF CONTEXT as to Time and  Circumstance

Ever since Ellen White’s death, SDA leaders have been misapplying her statements errantly in an effort to get folk to stay no matter what the church does.


“Christ was a protestant. He protested against the formal worship of the Jewish nation, who rejected the counsel of God against themselves. He told them that they taught for doctrines the commandments of men, and that they were pretenders and hypocrites. Like whited sepulchers they were beautiful without, but within full of impurity and corruption. The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles. The Bible is presented to us as a sufficient guide; but the pope and his workers remove it from the people as if it were a curse, because it exposes their pretensions and rebukes their idolatry.  {RH, June 1, 1886 par. 14}


When a corporate church engages apostasy and will not put it away and out of the camp, the faithful must leave or be corporately responsible. This is the reason Christ and His disciples left. This is why Paul left. This is why Protestants left Rome. This is why Adventists left the other churches in 1844, when they would not tolerate light.


"The plain straight testimony must live in the church, or the curse of God will rest upon His people as surely as it did upon ancient Israel because of their sins. God holds His people, as a body [corporately], responsible for the sins existing in individuals among them." Testimonies, vol. 3, p. 269.


"The names of those who sin and refuse to repent should not be retained on the church books, lest the saints be held accountable for their evil deeds. Those who pursue a course of transgression should be visited and labored with, and if they then refuse to repent, they should be separated from church fellowship, in accordance with the rules laid down in the Word of God." {11MR 208.3}


Jesus Left


"Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2.


Paul left


“And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.  9But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.” Acts 19:8, 9.


“Fearing that the faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the disciples into a distinct body.” E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 285, 286.


"The recreant priests added licentiousness to the dark catalogue of their crimes yet they still polluted by their presence the tabernacle of the Lord, and, laden with sin, dared to come into the presence of a holy God. As the men of Israel witnessed the corrupt course of the priests, they thought it safer for their families not to come up to the appointed place of worship. Many went from Shiloh with their peace disturbed, their indignation aroused, until they at last determined to offer their sacrifices themselves, concluding that this would be fully as acceptable to God, as to sanction in any manner the abominations practiced in the Sanctuary." E.G. White, The Signs of the Times, vol. 1, p. 264, col. 3, December 1, 1881. 


The Disciples Left 


"The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.

As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232. 


"Even though you may not be able to speak a word to those who are working on wrong principles, leave them. Your withdrawal and silence may do more than words. Nehemiah refused to associate with those who were untrue to principle, and he would not permit his workmen to associate with them. The love and fear of God were his safeguard-Dare to be a Daniel, Dare to stand alone. Thus as did Moses, you will endure the seeing of Him who is invisible. But a cowardly and silent reserve before evil associates, while you listen to their devices makes you one with them. Come out from among them and be separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." Review & Herald Vol. 4, p. 42. 


Ellen White did not leave in her day because she kept the abominations of apostasy out of the church. But in Great Controversy, p. 25, she said what happened to Jerusalem and the Temple in A.D. 70, was a PREFIGURE for the last days, which BEGINS AT HIS CHURCH, HIS SANCTUARY, 5T 211. All the faithful left the apostate Jewish church organization beginning in A.D. 34 to A.D. 66, at which time they fled to Pella, 3 ½ years before the Temple and Jerusalem were destroyed.


Home Churches


Scripture on Home Churches 

Act 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Act 16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Act 16:40 And they went out of the prison, and entered into [the house of] Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed.

Act 18:7 And he departed thence, and entered into a certain [man's] house, named Justus, [one] that worshipped God, whose house joined hard to the synagogue.

Rom 16:5 Likewise [greet] the church that is in their house. Salute my well beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

1Cr 1:11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them [which are of the house] of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

1Cr 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and [that] they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

1Cr 16:19 The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.


Ellen White on Home Churches

When the young men and women were kept away from the Alpha of apostasy in the church, what did they do and where did they meet for worship?


Ellen White on Home Churches in the Alpha of Apostasy:


"There is a little hope in one direction: Take the young men and women, and place them where they will come as little in contact with our churches as possible, that the low grade of piety which is current in this day shall not leaven their ideas of what it means to be a Christian." E.G. White, Manuscript Release #995, p. 5.  

"Brother and sister Haskell have rented a house in one of the best parts of the city, and have gathered round them a family of helpers, who day by day go out giving Bible readings, selling our papers, and doing medical missionary work. During the hour of worship, the workers relate their experiences. Bible studies are regularly conducted in the home, and THE YOUNG MEN AND YOUNG WOMEN connected with the mission receive a practical, thorough training in holding Bible readings and in selling our publications. The Lord has blessed their labors, a number have embraced the truth, and many others are deeply interested." Review and Herald, September 7, 1905, Evangelism, p. 108.

My Vision on the Godhead:

A lot of professing Seventh-day Adventists are going to experience Ezekiel 9 slaughter because of Walter Veith’s and Doug Batchelor’s serious errors. And all SDA leaders cite similar cherished errors in excusing the apostasy in and of the church. If anyone has any questions concerning this document, I would be glad to respond.

"Study the 9th chapter of Ezekiel.  These words will be literally fulfilled; yet the time is passing and the people are sleep.  They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience.  The time is short. God is calling; will you hear?" Letter 106, 1909.

Ellen White and Scripture on More Prophets

Most professing Seventh-day Adventists believe there are to be no more prophets after Ellen White. That is not true according to Mrs. White and the Bible.


"It would be poor policy to support from the treasury of God those who really mar and injure His work, and who are constantly lowering the standard of Christianity" (Testimonies, Vol. 3, p. 553).


All who support those who are teaching error to God’s people, He holds corporately responsible for the apostasy and all the abominations for which Ezekiel 9 will be the final result. This is far more serious than most Adventists discern. God says His people perish for a lack of knowledge, and to a large degree it is the leaders who are responsible for this condition existing in the church..


"In the very courts of the temple, scenes will be enacted that few realize. God's people will be proved and tested, that He may discern 'between him that serveth God and him that serveth Him not.' Vengeance will be executed against those who sit in the gate, deciding what the people should have and what they should not have. These take away the key of knowledge. They refuse to enter in themselves, and those who would enter in they hinder. These bear not the seal of the living God. All who now occupy responsible positions should be solemnly and terribly afraid lest in this time they shall be found as unfaithful stewards." E.G. White, Manuscript 15, 1886, Paulson Collection, p. 55.


The Key of Knowledge


Luk 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.


Gal 5:6  For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.


 “The gold tried in the fire is faith that works by love.” Christ’s Object Lessons, 158.


“It is contrition and faith and love that enable the soul to receive wisdom from heaven. Faith working by love is the key of knowledge, and everyone that loveth "knoweth God." 1 John 4:7. Desire of Ages, 139.


The message to Laodicea to buy gold tried in the fire—works based on love for Christ, and done by His indwelling power (grace for obedienc) by His Holy Spirit, has been rejected by the leadership of the professing Seventh-day Adventist church in favor of the false gospel taught by the other fallen churches – only believe. This is why the church is spewed out. But what of some members of the church who don’t believe that way? They are corporately responsible for those who do. That is why one must leave any church that is in apostasy.


Relationship Includes Obedience


The church is full of false teaching regarding a relationship with Christ; that there is no need of obedience, just a relationship. There is no relationship without obedience. Romans 1:5. Grace (the Holy Spirit) is given for obedience. The gift of the Divine Nature of Christ (His Holy Spirit) is given that we may obey and live. Obedience is the proof of a relationship with Christ. He gives the test: If you love me you will keep my commandments. How do you know you love the brethren? Keep my commandments.


Jhn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jhn 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Jhn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

2Jo 1:6   And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

1Jo 1:6   If we say that we have fellowship [RELATIONSHIP] with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 

1Jo 5:2   By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. 

1Jo 5:3   For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. 

1Jo 5:4   For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1Jo 2:3  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 

1Jo 2:4   He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 

1Jo 2:5   But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 

1Jo 2:6   He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.




The Eternal Dignitaries of the Trinity—The eternal heavenly dignitaries—God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit—arming them [the disciples] with more than mortal energy, ... would advance with them to the work and convince the world of sin.—Manuscript 145, 1901. {Ev 616.4}

Dear Forum members, I find the above statement on Omega Ministries web on the article dealing with TRINITY. On the statement above the three dignitaries are eternal yet the notion I am getting from the writer of the article is only God and Son are eternal. Can anybody clarify please for I am kind of confused,

My Regards to you all