My Encounter With Two Walter Veith Worshippers
During the past week, I was accosted by two Walter Veith worshippers. They provided some valuable insights into Veith’s interpretation of Ezekiel 9, if they are any example as to what he believes on Ezekiel 9. They informed me that Ezekiel 9 does not begin at any SDA church or sanctuary, but only with those who leave that “church.”
Ellen White said that Ezekiel 9 will be literally fulfilled. In the last literal fulfillment of Ezekiel 9, A.D. 70, the bad did not leave the good. The bad were gathered into the midsts of the apostate church to be slaughtered and burned. Ezekiel 22:17-31. Any future literal fulfillment would have to follow that historical fact.
Study Ezekiel 9 "Study the 9th chapter of Ezekiel. These words will be literally fulfilled yet the time is passing, and the people are asleep. They refuse to humble their souls and to be converted. Not a great while longer will the Lord bear with the people who have such great and important truths revealed to them, but who refuse to bring these truths into their individual experience. The time is short. God is calling will YOU hear? Will YOU receive His message? Will YOU be converted before it is too late? Soon, very soon, every case will be decided for eternity. Letter 106, 1909, pp. 2, 3, 5, 7. (To "The churches in Oakland and Berkeley, September 26, 1909.)" E. G. White Manuscript Releases Volume One, p. 260.
I reminded them that Ellen White, in Chapter 1 of The Great Controversy, says that the destruction of Jerusalem, circa A.D. 70, was a PREFIGURE of the terrors of the last great day. Then she says in Testimonies, Vol. 5, p. 211, that it begins at His Church, His Sanctuary, the House of Jacob.
This issue is so serious, God Almighty made a PREFIGURE (TYPE) for us to follow so that there would be no excuse for misunderstanding or confusion on this matter of extreme unction.
I reminded the two Veith devotees that Ellen White said that Ezekiel 9 is literal. Ezekiel 9 as literally manifested upon ancient literal Jerusalem, could not have taken place before A.D. 70, for the reason that the 490 years of Israel’s probation (Daniel 9), did not end until A.D. 34, commensurate with the stoning of Stephen. God would not MARK (Seal) his people before their probation was up. He would not allow them to be slain as a corporate body until their probation was over.
The SDA Bible Commentary errantly states under Ezekiel 9 that it was the sieges of Nebuchadnezzar. That is totally false for two reasons:
1. The reason given above that Israel’s Daniel 9 (490 years probation) did not end until A.D. 34.
2. God permitted the sieges of Nebuchadnezzar as being the Captivities, during which the Hebrews were taken captive for 70 years. It was God’s design that they would repent.
3. The disciples did not form home churches into which their converts were gathered until A.D. 34, when Israel’s probation was ended.
Over time, I have asked the Walter Veith devotees these questions which they have always refused to answer. All they say is that I twist things. They never say how I do so. Many times over many years I have asked them to take every point I make and disprove it using the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. NOT ONCE over many years and many requests have they met this reasonable request.
· Was the apostate Jewish church cleansed from A.D. 27-70, so that it was not destroyed in A.D. 70?
· Were the bad all shaken out of that once church militant to leave it purged and purified?
· Did the destruction involve only those who had left the apostate church?
· Jesus and His followers ALL LEFT THE CHURCH. Were they destroyed or was the apostate Temple destroyed?
Does God say in Ezekiel 9 and 5T 211 that He will begin with INDIVIDUALS who have left the new movement that removed Him? Or does He say BEGIN AT MY SANCTUARY? And is that exactly what happened?
· If Ezekiel 9 is to be literally fulfilled again, did the bad leave the apostate Jewish church, leaving it purged and purified in the PREFIGURE TYPE? Ezekiel 22:17-31; The Great Controversy, Chapter 1.
· Did Ezekiel 9 in the PREFIGURE, kill only those who had left the apostate Jewish church, to leave it purged and purified?
· Where were all the apostate gathered for slaughter and burning? Answer: Ezekiel 22:17-31.
· Did Jesus remain in the apostate church, or did He and His disciples separate. Did He “gather out” those who would take the gospel truth to the world? Desire of Ages, p. 232.
· Did all the good (Christ’s followers) leave the apostate church from A.D. 27-66, at which time they fled to Pella and were saved while all the bad were gathered into the midst of Jerusalem and the Temple for slaughter, and/or being taken into Roman slavery?
· Was Ellen White a false prophet in saying that the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70 was a PREFIGURE for how it all goes down at the end of time?
· Is God a false God, for saying it all begins at His Sanctuary, literally, and not with those who have left the apostate church? The good leave the apostate church as in the TYPE of A.D. 27-66. However, of course some will leave the apostate church for the wrong reasons, and they will experience Ezekiel 9 along with the Babylonians.
· In light of the Bible and SOP statements on the principle of Corporate responsibility AS A BODY, how do such men as Walter Veith and Andrew Henriques escape such responsibility for all the abominations? How does any MEMBER of the church escape such responsibility?
· Ellen White said the omega apostasy would wax stronger until Jesus comes. How could the apostate church be cleansed under such circumstances?
Wax stronger "One thing it is certain is soon to be realized, the great apostasy, which is developing and increasing and waxing stronger, and will continue to do so until the Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout. We are to hold fast the first principles of our denominated faith, and go forward from strength to increased faith. Ever we are to keep the faith that has been substantiated by the Holy Spirit of God from the earlier events of our experience until the present time. We need now larger breadth, and deeper, more earnest, unwavering faith in the leadings of the Holy Spirit. If we needed the manifest proof of the Holy Spirit's power to confirm truth in the beginning, after the passing of the time, we need to-day all the evidence in the confirmation of the truth, when souls are departing from the faith and giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. There must not be any languishing of soul now." (E.G. White, Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 57).
"The enemy will set everything in operation to uproot the confidence of the believers in the pillars of our faith in the messages of the past, which have placed us upon the elevated platform of eternal truth, and which have established and given character to the work. The Lord God of Israel has led out His people, unfolding to them truth of heavenly origin." "The truth for this time is precious, but those whose hearts have not been broken by falling on the Rock Christ Jesus, will not see and understand what is truth. They will accept that which pleases their ideas, and will begin to manufacture another foundation than that which is laid. They will flatter their own vanity and esteem, thinking that they are capable of removing the pillars of our faith, and replacing them with pillars they have devised. This will continue to be as long as time shall last." Notebook, Leaflets, pp. 61-62.
Veith’s defenders would not respond to repeated requests for them to answer the above questions. I understood why they could not answer without proving themselves (and Veith) errant, as this must be his position as well, since he instructs all MEMBERS of the church to super glue themselves to a pew and remain at the apostate new movement church NO MATTER WHAT IT DOES.
They maintained that Veith could dismantle my position. I welcome any attempt to disprove what Ellen White referred to as a LITERAL PREFIGURE regarding another end-time manifestation of Ezekiel 9. I welcome any attempt to dismantle God’s following words in Ezekiel 9:6:
Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
"Here we see that the church the Lord's sanctuary was the first to feel the stroke of the wrath of God. The ancient men, those to whom God had given great light and who had stood as guardians of the spiritual interests of the people, had betrayed their trust. They had taken the position that we need not look for miracles and the marked manifestation of God's power as in former days. Times have changed. These words strengthen their unbelief, and they say: The Lord will not do good, neither will He do evil. He is too merciful to visit His people in judgment. Thus "Peace and safety" is the cry from men who will never again lift up their voice like a trumpet to show God's people their transgressions and the house of Jacob their sins. These dumb dogs that would not bark are the ones who feel the just vengeance of an offended God. Men, maidens, and little children all perish together." E.G. White, Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 5, p. 211.
I welcome any attempt by Walter Veith to contravene Ezekiel Chapter 22, wherein it states that in the literal fulfillment of the TYPE of Ezekiel 9, the bad were gathered into the midst of Jerusalem (and the Temple) for the slaughter.
I welcome any attempt by Walter Veith to contravene the fact that Christ, the disciples, and their followers left the apostate church of their day, to wit:
"The Sanhedrin had rejected Christ's message and was bent upon His death therefore Jesus departed from Jerusalem, from the priests, the temple, the religious leaders, the people who had been instructed in the law, and turned to another class to proclaim His message, and to gather out those who should carry the gospel to all nations.
As the light and life of men was rejected by the ecclesiastical authorities in the days of Christ, so it has been rejected in every succeeding generation. Again and again the history of Christ's withdrawal from Judea has been repeated. When the Reformers preached the word of God, they had no thought of separating themselves from the established church but the religious leaders would not tolerate the light, and those that bore it were forced to seek another class, who were longing for the truth. In our day few of the professed followers of the Reformers are actuated by their spirit. Few are listening for the voice of God, and ready to accept truth in whatever guise it may be presented. Often those who follow in the steps of the Reformers are forced to turn away from the churches they love, in order to declare the plain teaching of the word of God. And many times those who are seeking for light are by the same teaching obliged to leave the church of their fathers, that they may render obedience." E.G. White, Desire of Ages, 232.
"Christ was a protestant...The Reformers date back to Christ and the apostles. They came out and separated themselves from a religion of forms and ceremonies. Luther and his followers did not invent the reformed religion. They simply accepted it as presented by Christ and the apostles." E.G. White, Review and Herald, vol. 2, 48, col. 2.
"And as they persisted in their rejection of the gospel the apostle (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God. But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus." Acts, 19:8, 9.
"Fearing that the faith of the believers would be endangered by continued association with these opposers of the truth, Paul separated from them, and gathered the disciples into a distinct body." E.G. White, Acts of the Apostles, p. 286.
In the Type, a Faithful Remnant Went Out of Jerusalem
I challenge Walter Veith, and all SDA leaders and members to contravene the following Biblical record of who left whom in the PREFIGURE OF EZEKIEL 9:
Isa 37:31 And the remnant that is escaped of the house of Judah shall again take root downward, and bear fruit upward:
Isa 37:32 For out of Jerusalem shall go forth a remnant, and they that escape out of mount Zion: the zeal of the LORD of hosts shall do this.
I challenge all professing Seventh-day Adventists, and every Jew living on the face of the earth, to reconcile Isaiah 4:1-4 with Isaiah 37:31, 32, regarding the “washing away of the filth of the daughters of Zion.”
Isa 4:1 And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.
Isa 4:2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.
Isa 4:3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
Any interpretation of the above verses by any Adventist writer I have read, interprets the washing away of the filth of the daughters of Zion, to mean that the bad is washed away from the SDA church. That is a total misinterpretation that makes Isaiah contradict himself in Isaiah 37:32, 32.
Zion was the disciples, the bride of Jesus Christ, Desire of Ages, 179. Zion was the earthly representative of the Sion (Zion) in heaven, Heb. 12:22, 23. The daughters of Zion were apostate Israel and Judah who were both given a bill of divorce by God. Only individuals could repent and be converted by the disciples. They were give a shaking message by the disciples, and whomever received the message were BOUND/SEALED in the kingdom of God. All who did not receive the shaking message of pure truth, were THE FILTH OF THE DAUGHTERS OF ZION THAT WAS WASHED AWAY BY THE SPIRIT OF BURNING IN THE MIDSTS OF APOSTATE JERUSALEM EZEKIEL CHAPTER 22, ESPECIALLY VERSES 22-31. This is the only correct interpretation that does not contradict Isaiah 37:31, 32, and the living facts of historical and Biblical record.
My opposers said that I could not defend my position against Walter Veith’s contention that we should Super Glue ourselves to a pew in the apostate church and keep our mouths shut except to give the three angel’s messages ONLY, when God instructs us to sigh and cry ALOUD (Ezekiel 9 and Isaiah 58:1) for all the sins and abominations. And God says that such sighing and crying is CONDITIONAL, A PREREQUISTE FOR BEING SEALED BY THE MAN IN LINEN.
For all who think that my warning message is unsustainable, let Walter Veith and all the thought leaders of the church prove these facts as error, and they will prove Scripture and Ellen White as errant. They will prove the history of the Jews per the Bible, and the secular historical record as errant!
If I am ever taken to legal task by the apostate SDA church, or someone like Walter Veith, this is part of the defense I will present. I would ask any judge and any spiritual leader this question: If God and the Spirit of Prophecy BOTH warned that Ezekiel 9 will begin at their church, their Sanctuary, would they not love their people enough to want to warn them? That is my only motive, and God in heaven knows this. The proof of love is in the warning and the high risks involved in giving the warning.
All God’s blessings,
P.S. Write to Walter Veith and every SDA you know, and ask them to refute these facts of truth for you, item by item, leaving NOTHING OUT. Request that they harmonize this evidence with all the statements in Testimonies to Ministers, that ministers have misapplied since the death of Ellen White. Testimonies to Ministers is a compilation made by ministers in an attempt to defend the church no matter what it does, when the following statement totally condemns such a course:
“The Lord Jesus will always have a chosen people to serve Him. When the Jewish people rejected Christ, the Prince of life. He took from them the kingdom of God and gave it unto the Gentiles. God will continue to work on this principle with every branch of His work. When a church proves unfaithful to the work of the Lord, whatever their position may be, however high and sacred their calling, the Lord can no longer work with them. Others are then chosen to bear important responsibilities. But, if these in turn do not purify their lives from every wrong action, if they do not establish pure and holy principles in all their borders, then the Lord will grievously afflict and humble them and, unless they repent, will remove them from their place and make them a reproach.
God is not 'worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing' (Acts 17:25).” E. G. White, The Upward Look, 131.
God's promises are all made upon conditions. Faith and Works, p. 47.
“God would in no wise excuse sin in a people who had been enlightened, even if He had, in their days of faithfulness and purity, loved them, and given them especial promises. These promises and blessings were always upon condition of obedience upon their part.” Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 2, p.54.
“God had given them [Jews] His gracious promise that they should become a peculiar treasure unto Him, on condition of obedience; but if they were disobedient He would reject them, and choose another people.” Signs of the Times Vol. 1 p. 152.
"We must as a people arouse and cleanse the camp of Israel. Licentiousness, unlawful intimacy, and unholy practices are coming in among us in a large degree...We are in danger of becoming a sister to fallen Babylon, of allowing our churches to become corrupted and filled with every foul spirit, a cage for every unclean and hateful bird, and will we be clear unless we make decided movements to cure the existing evil?” E. G. White, Manuscript Releases No. 449, pp. 17, 18.
"If we turn from the testimony of God's word, and accept false doctrines [Calvinism] because our fathers taught them, we fall under the condemnation pronounced upon Babylon we are drinking of the wine of her abominations." E. G White, The 1884 Great Controversy entitled Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, 347.
Since Ellen White’s death the SDA church has accepted the following false doctrines taught by the early fathers of the fallen churches.
The antichrist version on the human nature of Christ.
Rome’s central doctrine, the Trinity Doctrine that contradicts Ellen White’s definition of the Holy Spirit and does away with the Sanctuary and Atonement messages, thus sweeping away the entire Christian economy as Ellen White prophesied it would.
"It is now the duty of God's commandment--keeping people to watch and pray, to search the Scriptures diligently, to hide the Word of God in the heart, lest they sin against Him in idolatrous thoughts and debasing practices, and the church of God become demoralized like the fallen churches whom prophecy represents as being filled with every unclean and hateful bird." E. G. White, Review and Herald, May 17, 1887.
"In the balances of the sanctuary the Seventh-day Adventist church is to be weighed. She will be judged by the privileges and advantages that she has had. . . .I saw our Instructor pointing to the garments of so-called righteousness. Stripping them of, He laid bare he defilement beneath. Then He said to me: 'Can you not see how they have pretentiously covered up their defilement and rottenness of character? How is the faithful city become an harlot?" E. G. White, Testimonies, Vol. 8, pp. 247-250.
This is merely an abbreviated portion of my warning message, but if individuals won’t accept this potent, conclusive light, it is not likely they will respond to any light.